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1. Clayton Dewey (clayton@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:13 UTC Clayton Dewey

   The State of #UX in 2023 just dropped.

   What are people's thoughts/reactions?

   https://trends.uxdesign.cc/

   #UXDesign

   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:03 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     • cherti

     @cherti @clayton my understanding is that it is not compete, that the software running on the backend of Signal itself is not the same. In anycase, it does not federate and requires phone number disclosure. Not a project that should be supported. Again, Matrix/Element is more appropriate for this list.

   • cherti (cherti@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:05 UTC cherti

     in reply to

     • Dmytri

     @dk @clayton The server code is also licensed as AGPL, just like the iOS client and even stronger than the Android-client.

     Rafael Bonifaz repeated this.
   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:06 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     @clayton Signal is not free software (only the client is) and requires phone number disclosure to use. It should never be recommended as an alternative to anything. Matrix/Element makes more sense in that list.

   • Clayton Dewey (clayton@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:11 UTC Clayton Dewey

     in reply to

     there is an encouraging counter-current running, which is the growing focus and investment from #OpenSource and #CommunityTech projects on #UXDesign

     When we design and resource projects for community and sustainability, rather than endless profit, we have tools that actually meet our collective needs.

     #CryptPad
     #Drupal
     #Firefox
     #Mastodon
     #PixelFed
     #PeerTube
     #PenPot
     #Signal
     #Thunderbird
     #Tor

     are just a few community tech projects succeeding because they value design

   • Clayton Dewey (clayton@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:11 UTC Clayton Dewey

     in reply to

     I hope these two trends continue so that the difference in experience is so stark that people continue to make the shift from

     Twitter -> Mastodon
     Figma -> Penpot
     WhatsApp -> Signal
     Chrome -> Firefox
     Gmail -> Thunderbird
     GoogleDocs -> CryptPad
     Exploited Workplace -> Unionized
     Capitalistm -> Cooperatives

   • Clayton Dewey (clayton@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:12 UTC Clayton Dewey

     in reply to

     For me, it speaks to something on my mind a lot these days, which is the way capitalism's demand for ever-increasing growth is coming down hard on us.

     The artificially depressed prices that companies like Amazon and Uber used to gain market share is over. Now that they're established they're cranking up the exploitation to pay back their investors.

     We're seeing this with social media platforms too with more aggressive advertising.

     The more profit-maximization, the worse our "user experience"

   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:36 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     • cherti

     @cherti @clayton just memory of the various issues and shenanigans around signal over the years, things Moxi has said, etc. It's always been a sus project. The phone number disclosure and lack of federation is enough to make it not belong on that list tho, so believe what you want about the rest. Matrix does not require phone number disclosure and has federation.

   • cherti (cherti@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:51:38 UTC cherti

     in reply to

     • Dmytri

     @dk @clayton Where do you get this info from? as far as I know, the Server code is what they are running upstream, possibly minus a different configuration, of course.
     Matrix actually has the very same issue, you cannot know what a Matrix server under your control runs. You need to trust it (particularly as Matrix holds a lot more metadata and information serverside than Signal does), so it's in the end the same situation in that regard.

     Rafael Bonifaz repeated this.
   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:52:45 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     • cherti

     @cherti @clayton the signal team has been ignoring criticism for many many years, I don't see them as being credible on privacy at all. Cryptography, sure, took them years to work without google play services, fraught with f-droid, still require phone numbers, etc, etc, etc. Not a good actor in the community, never have been.

   • cherti (cherti@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 21:52:47 UTC cherti

     in reply to

     • Dmytri

     @dk @clayton … which leads to metadata leaks of other sorts (or do the matrix servers actually encrypt the roster by now? I thought they would just save your contacts and room members and such unencrypted severside, but I could be wrong).

     Anyways, depends on what you want, one is built primatily for privacy, the other one primarily for interoperability, so it boils down to what your specific usecase is. :)

     Rafael Bonifaz repeated this.
   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 22:01:17 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     • cherti

     @cherti @clayton dude, you're 'splaining now. Chosing the right messenger will certainly not clear away all risks. Choosing the wrong one, namely Signal, will create new risks. Now please don't tag me on anymore Signal related messages, this is more time than I have discussing a dodgy project that will never be something "everybody uses" and is not intended to be such by it's intelligence affiliated funders. Tell someone else. I'm happy to use it, like other IMs when needed, I do not recommend it, ever, and it does not belong on the OP list, which features *federated* projects.

   • cherti (cherti@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 22:01:18 UTC cherti

     in reply to

     • Dmytri

     @dk @clayton It's a question of situation and usability. In some situations, using Signal as a means to hide in plain sight when everybody uses it might be a good approach, in other situations it might not be.

     Implying that simply choosing the right messenger would clear out all OpSec-risks and protect that "dissident activist group" is way more likely to make it into a failing dumpster fire.

     Seeing things black/white without greyscale is the way higher risk here, because it plainly denies …

   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 22:01:19 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     • cherti

     @cherti @clayton

     "Hello, welcome to our dissident activist group ... please give me your phone number"

     Nice try CIA

   • cherti (cherti@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 22:01:20 UTC cherti

     in reply to

     • Dmytri

     @dk @clayton and there are enough solutions fail in having a userbase that makes the messenger practical in the first place. 🤷

     and, notably, when phone number leakage is the single worst case scenario, then Signal can't be that bad, because it's neither content leakage, nor social graph leakage, nor usability pattern leakage. I think that's actually a pretty good track record. :)

   • Dmytri (dk@tldr.nettime.org)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 22:01:21 UTC Dmytri

     in reply to

     • cherti

     @cherti @clayton the single worst case scenario data leakage is phone number disclosure in any vulnerable situation. Signal fails before you share your first message, There is nothing more to discuss.

   • cherti (cherti@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Dec-2022 22:01:22 UTC cherti

     in reply to

     • Dmytri

     @dk @clayton with regards to privacy they actually have way more technical guarantees in place than Matrix ever had. Matrix is all about "trust be bro" (with several servers involved of most of which of which I probably don't even know who's behind them), whereas Signal gives actual, tenable cryptographic guarantees on many things.

     I think the read "ignoring criticism" is more a read of "they didn't implement the system exactly as *I* wanted", which, quite frankly, is impossible to do when …