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1. Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 28-Mar-2018 06:09:48 UTC Danyl Strype
   @wolf480pl #Kialo replied to me. They have no plans to free their code, which they tell me is specific to #AWS and has 25 fulltime devs
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 16:04:03 UTC Danyl Strype
     kialo.com: designed to facilitate constructive debate ... without turning into the usual Internet Shouting Factory.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 16:08:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl saw your post about #Kialo, have you checked out #Loomio, #Discourse, #LiquidFeedback, or #Gruff?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 16:54:07 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl good point. I think the idea in #Loomio is that threads are detailed arguments, grouped in subgroups if necessary but ... yeah
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:10:23 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl I've been arguing since the beginning of #Loomio for the ability to fork a comment(s) into a new thread. I think #Discourse does
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:11:50 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl I think so, more about #Gruff here:
     https://words.democracy.earth/introducing-project-gruff-830127de1bb6
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:14:14 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl I think the #Loomio folks feel using polls to guide deliberation to decisions achieves the same thing. That works for small teams
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:18:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl ... but I'm not sure it's effective for people who don't already have shared context, and at larger scales
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:21:05 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl hmm, Wikipedia isn't a good comparison. Any productive debate happens there *despite* it's terrible interface, not because of it
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:22:05 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl their original poll type was based on the #Occupy consensus options ("agree", "disagree", "abstain", "block"), not majority-vote
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:24:02 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl more recently they added #Loomio poll types are for things like scheduling meetings and canvassing options ("straw poll")
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:25:10 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl the #Loomio design goals are more about rmaking decisions than reaching conclusions about ultimate truths, different requirements
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:26:30 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl who is an expert or non-expert in the decision about where we should go for lunch? As I say, different design goals
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:29:51 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl the Slack integration was in response to requests by paying user groups. Communication always happens out of band.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:31:30 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl even if there is someone who has eaten everywhere on the list, how do they know what everyone else likes or feels like?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:33:17 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl the use of that 'Proposals' consensus poll is described here
     https://www.loomio.school/beginner/decision_tools.html#proposal
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:34:24 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl true, but if we have no other point of contact, we're unlikely to be making decisions that affect each others lives, so ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:35:40 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl what I'm saying is, if we have sufficient shared context to be making decisions together, we will have multiple contact points
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:37:11 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl but you're right that there are questions where the answers are not subjective (eg "is climate change real?"), and really matter
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:38:37 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl the net currently lacks effective tools for making participatory decisions on issues like that at scale (eg cities or countries)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:42:43 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl I've been scoping possible components for building a Git-based one
      https://www.coactivate.org/projects/disintermedia/gitocracy
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:43:40 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl need a new name though, someone already took #Gitocracy ;-P
     https://github.com/gausie/gitocracy
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:49:19 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl oh, in #Loomio that's what the context box at the top of each thread is for. It's editable by group members with tracked changes.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 17-Mar-2018 17:50:07 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Wolf480pl
     @wolf480pl have you found source code for #Kialo? I could only find a list of free code dependencies
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Mar-2018 14:59:06 UTC Danyl Strype
     @wolf480pl why assume that? There are .com sites that release their code or re-use code from open source projects, just like any .extension
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Mar-2018 15:01:31 UTC Danyl Strype
     @nicolasmaia that would only work if such rational arguments existed, so I'm not too worried about that.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Mar-2018 15:05:04 UTC Danyl Strype
     @nicolasmaia that would only work if such rational arguments existed, so I'm not too worried about that.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 28-Mar-2018 06:49:25 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @wolf480pl I can't find the list of (many) free code dependencies of Kialo. Turns out tragedy of the [free code] commons is a thing :(