Conversation

Notices

1. Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 21-Apr-2018 09:52:38 UTC Danyl Strype
   @steelman @nerdresa @sungo if every #FreeCode project uses GH only as a mirror, keeping their dev repo elsewhere (#Savannah, #GitLab etc)...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 21-Apr-2018 09:54:45 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo ... ie a platform that is itself fully free code, then GH is no longer a SPOF, just a useful mirror
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 21-Apr-2018 10:21:33 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman if everyone did their dev on #GitLab, they would be able to keep a local backup of *everything*, including their issue tracker.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 21-Apr-2018 10:23:08 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman GH isn't just a mirror if it owns data that's important to your project and won't let you have copies. But we don't have to let it
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:26:13 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman eg the contents of Issue trackers. You said these would all be lost if GH went down, so I presume they can't be backed up?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:36:32 UTC Danyl Strype
     @sungo @steelman @nerdresa IMHO you pretty much nailed it here:
     https://bsd.network/@sungo/99892569620707789
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:41:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo Linus created #Git to solve problems he had with #Linux kernel dev. Helping n00bs wasn't even vaguely in his mind
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:43:24 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo ... but the #UX fails of vanilla #GNU-Linux (a la 1990s) weren't solved by changing #Linux or #GNU ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:46:50 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo ... but by adding hand-holding UI layers for those who need them. GH (like #KDE) did this with proprietary tech
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:50:42 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo if everyone who cares about #SoftwareFreedom switches to #GitLab or #Gogs, like they switched to #GNOME ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Apr-2018 06:51:48 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo ... maybe GH will eventually free the proprietary bits of their code, just like #KDE did
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 04:58:50 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman people who don't have the skills to host infrastructure for a single project don't have the skills to maintain their own PC ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:03:07 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman ... and they'd be best to master such basic skills, before putting time into software dev
     https://mediagoblin.org/news/userops
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:12:24 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo GNOME began as replacement for KDE because Qt was proprietary, KDE depended on Qt, ergo, KDE was proprietary
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:13:57 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo Qt license banned distribution of modified versions of Qt
     https://www.kde.org/community/history/qtissue.php
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:29:44 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo it's the same with GH. Most of their stack is already free code, but not all. Not enough to allow self-hosting...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:48:17 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman maybe so, but anyone challenged by basic OpSec isn't going to be capable of programming secure, robust code competently  ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:54:10 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman ... also:
     https://www.extremetech.com/computing/120981-github-hacked-millions-of-projects-at-risk-of-being-modified-or-deleted
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:54:32 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman ... and:
     https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/someone-is-putting-lots-of-work-into-hacking-github-developers/
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 05:55:39 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman having everyone's code makes GH a big, juicy target, in a way millions of self-hosted projects can never be #SPOF
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 06:38:45 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo Here's one git.gnu.io ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 06:54:21 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo here's another one ...
     https://coderuse.com/2016/09/How-I-Host-Private-GitLab-With-CI-For-Less-Than-Four-Euro/
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 06:55:12 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman @nerdresa @sungo ... and another one
     https://www.outcoldman.com/en/archive/2014/06/15/where-to-host-git-repositories/
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 08:35:48 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman how do you read "I don’t have any reasons to not use BitBucket, but at the same time I don’t use it" as 'chooses BitBucket?'
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 08:36:28 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman like I said, this is an example of a self-hosted GL instance "I like GitLab itself, so for now I just host it on my own server"
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:08:15 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman so, to see if the discussion is worth continuing, I'll wait for something like "I was totally wrong about GH never getting hacked"
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:09:59 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman there's no much point arguing with people who value making other people wrong over being intellectually honest
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:35:04 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman you said "GH hasn't been hacked yet ", still waiting for you to admit this was a factual error
     https://quitter.se/notice/25551608
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:36:38 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman once we get that admission out of the way, I'll happily move on to your assumptions about what I am and am not claiming
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:38:47 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman cool. I'm saying self-hosting (whether GitLab, Gogs, roll-your-own or whatever) solves two problems ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:42:59 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman  1) making people run proprietary JS in their browser to work on free code
     https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.en.html
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:44:17 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman 2) #SPOF . Yes, I recognize that self-hosting brings its own challenges involving maintenance, security etc, and takes up time ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 23-Apr-2018 09:46:33 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     @steelman ... but as with the #fediverse / #federation, the solution to that is pods of users, sharing userOps duties as their skills allow
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Apr-2018 16:29:54 UTC Danyl Strype
     @steelman I guess time will tell. A lot will depend on if devs make an effort to make #userOps easy like they have with #GNU-Linux (eg GUIs)