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1. 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Sep-2019 08:39:17 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   So I heard someone repeat the narrative I heard many times that all mass shooters are straight white males. Never looked into it before, sounded legitimate since I can only recall white males as mass shooters in the news. So I decided to do some quick research.

   To my surprise it is actually **less** likely for a white person to be a mass shooter than other races. Below is a breakdown of races of mass shooters and a breakdown of the races of the general population in the USA. As you can see the proportion of mass shooters who are white is smaller than the portion in the general population.

   I want to be clear I am **not** using this in an attempt to make the false and incorrect claim that minorities are prone to violence, they are not. I am simply using it to debunk the myth of the white shooter.

   #USPOL #Guns #massshootings #gunreform #gunviolence

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Sep-2019 08:42:05 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • 🌺δ

     @ipslfn US

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Sep-2019 08:42:53 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • 🌺δ

     @ipslfn No worries, questions and criticism always welcomed.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Sep-2019 23:38:39 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Not only does it make perfect sense, it is standard practice in the Data science world and the only way to pass peer review.

     If you dont normalize for the population what point are you even making of any value.. white people will be the majority of cases in virtually **everything** you could analyze without normalizing.. for example if you dont normalize for population you can make all the following (incorrect/misleading) statements:

     Almost all of the smartest people are white

     Almost all nice people are white

     Almost all people who wake up early are white

     There is really no end to the sanity once you dont normalize.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 00:13:09 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Also lets be clear, since a white person is LESS likely to be a mass shooter than a person of a nother race then it is **wrong** to say that the reason whites commit more mass shootings is a social factor.. it is not, it is simply because there is more of them, in fact the social and biological pressures are such that they are LESS likely to commit mass murder, not more (As the data above clearly shows)

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 01:43:45 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     @yuduki The data agrees with both left and right leaning sources. Mass shootings are defined as shootings in which 4 or more people are shot IIRC. It includes chicago killings that fit that description.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:28:18 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun It seems you have it backwards. The fact that minorities are underrepresented in a majority white state is exactly WHY you need to apply normalization to statistics. There are only a few exceptions to this I could think of, and mass murders arent one of them.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:30:31 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Race is biological, nationality and culture are not. Thats just standard science, nothing that **I** think. It is just that people arent from any single race (usually) but rather have a mix of races. We have formal scientific ways of defining what these are.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:32:23 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I think your missing the point. The pooint is simple: your black friend and your white friend both have about equal chance of being mass murderers. Thats all this point is tring to make. It **is** true

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:37:55 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Do you agree or disagree that the statistics show that int he USA if you randomly pick one white guy and one minority then there is about equal chance of either being a mass murderer.

     Lets start there, do we at least agree with that initial point?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:41:30 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Also no i dont think there is any genetic or racial intrinsic tendency to violence. While the stats do show whites are less likely to be mass murderers the difference is marginal.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:43:34 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Then you misunderstand how racial genetics work. Genes originate (mutated) in specific geographic locations. As such over time those genes are more common in the regions they originate in than elsewhere, since distribution of genes take time.

     Thats all race is, the gfact that certain genes are focused in certain geographic regions, and thus correlates to your own genetic origin...

     Good bye, I am done as well.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:50:08 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I said nothing about genetic diversity being equal to race. I said race is a complex breakdown of your regional genetic origin. If most of your genes originated somewhere in africa, then you are considering closer to being african than some other region.

     What is arbitrary is where exactly we draw the lines, northern african vs southern. Borders, and thus our choice of names for races, are certainly artifican. But the idea of race, as more of a spectrum, certainly is not.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:52:20 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Also i have read from scientists explaining this. I myself am a published scientist and have even dealt with the subject before in a peer-review setting.

     You just misunderstand the argument. It is the specific names and borders that are a construct (this is true) not race itself.

     Try reading a peer reviewed scientific journal instead of some mass media news report for lay people. You will get a far better understanding of the material that way.

     Also would help if you try to listen to people instead of going in guns blazing waiting for your chance to strike. It isnt a very mature way to behave.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 07:53:25 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I have read the paper, again I am a scientist myself who has published in peer-reviewed journals. I am well aware of what the consensus is among my peers.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:00:32 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Yes I actually studied Biology as well. I do bio-related big data as a career. Instead of assuming (as you seem to kee doing) perhaps you should have asked. It really discredits you when you assume things that are clearly false. It shows you arent being objective or rational in your discourse.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:02:14 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Again you keep talking and dont listen. I have pointed out three times now that it is not biological, so why do you keep insisting it as a counter point?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:03:21 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No im sayingI beleive genetic origin is a tool we and **all** scientists use to evaluate things most people call race. Again you arent listening, just talking.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:06:17 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Again you are not **listening**..

     **RACE** is biological, that is correct and yes I stated that.

     What I did not say was that biology effects if a person is a shooter or not.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:08:10 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No I didnt change anything, you jsut arent paying attention to the nuance of what Im saying.

     You are spending all your time trying to tell me what I meant to say or what you think I said rather than trying to understand what I am trying to say.

     Ever think that instead of someone "changing" what they said maybe you just misunderstood them (either because I wasnt clear or you didnt listen) and now I'm trying to clarify.

     Instead of trying to be a pompous ass trying to create some drama over a white night issue that doesnt exist how about you take a minute to try to understand what a person REALLY meant and see you just got it all backwards.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:09:58 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun

     Right wing and left wing radicalization is a huge problem I agree.

     As someone of Native American Descent myself I have been the victim of both forms of radicalization.

     I said NOTHING about what side of the political fence the shooters were on.

     @a7

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:11:29 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I answered that in my last response again you are **not** istening, you are just having a temper tantrum and its really immature.

     Again I was saying that being a mass shooter is **not** biologically driven... I did say and continue to maintain that race (as a spectrum not as specifical borders) is biologically evident.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:15:18 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I have no problem with you being of the opinion that i am wrong. But since this is an area I have signicianct understanding of I am going to go witht he consensus of the scientific community on this one, not you. In science we routinely compare genetics and race to get meaningful useful results.

     Now you are welcome to disagree with that. But you have shown you are too emotionally immature on this topic to actually be objective enough to be able to reason you way to the truth.

     If you'd like to gather yourself, maybe apologize, and actually have a civil discourse on what i actually mean I'd be happy to forget the episode and start over.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:16:58 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Your opinion of what is or is not fact is an opinion, regardless of what the actual underlying fact may be. You are of the opinion it is fact, I am of the opinion that it is not.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:18:19 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun The difference is the scientific community as a whole have accepted my papers on the topic (peer review).. I've went up against groups of top scientists, had my work evaluated, and they agreed it was valid... So sorry but going to say my credentials here outweigh yours on this matter.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:22:26 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun You dont have wide proof however because you are too emotional, and perhaps uneducated, to know how to even interpret the evidence, as is demonstrated by how you interacted with this post.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:23:04 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Sure thing, what paywalls do you have a subscription to, ill be sure to link you one you can get to through it.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:28:09 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun cool let me check to see which of my papers youd have access to.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:29:03 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Of course I care to read them! I welcome your opinions as long as you arent being abusive, aggressive, and rude.

     As ong as you are mature and respectful I welcome any discourse and will consider your points thoroughly presuming you give me the same respect.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:32:16 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I sent an email to my old research assistant back in america. She will get back to me later today with a link. She handles most of the my paywall stuff. But she is quick to respond, i should have some links for you later today that you can access through JTOR presuming they cover any of the journals I've published in.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:40:53 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Historically the word race was abused and used largely in unscientific ccircles. Yes I am not naive to the risks of someone with racist intent using the discussion for their racist agenda, historically that has happened quite often.

     Also historically race has had many different definitions many of them were wrong.

     That is one reason that we scientists try to distance ourselves a bit fromt he language. We tend to use the word "populations" rather than "race" as a result of the euphemism treadmill (if you dont know that term i can explainw hat I mean).

     But by in large when we say "populations" we just mean a less controversial word for "race" really. We tend to say things like "The northern nigerian people" or something to that effect to avoid words like race.

     Also "black" is not a race by any scientific analogy, neither is white. Those are just skin tones.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:43:38 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun If possible can you please share scientific articles, not articles written for the lay-person. If we are talking facts rather than opinion peer-review is a critical component of that.

     The articles you posted arent scholarly in nature. Im not saying they are entirely wrong mind you, several of their points (not all) are actually valid, but they also dont really disagree with my claim either, not entirely (thats why we need the scientific articles, there is a lot of nuance here that is critical)

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:44:46 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Also hold off ont he other sources, we can get to those later. lets address **one** source at a time shall we. The harvard one seems more relevant here, so can we take a moment please to focus our discussion on that before we move on to any other sources youd like to discuss.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:46:11 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Lets put this message on hold, we havent even discussed your first source yet. We have to actually dive into these sources, not just plaster them, because they actually arent disagreeing with me, like i said the devil is int he details.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:48:18 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun The reason you dont "get this" yet is because you havent discussed with me the material you sent yet, im trying to take one point at a time with you.

     But yes i agree the old term was tainted and largely useless based on the way it was used in the past. Whether you wish to call it a euphemism or not point is "populations" are largely what the term changed to, and rightfully so

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:49:58 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Ever time we updated the definition of the atom we still continued to call it an atom, we just changed the definition, not the word... thus it was not a word ont he "euphemism treadmill" ...

     But again whether you wish to call it a euphemism or not is largely irrelevant so not important. point is "populations" is what the term evolved into.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:52:15 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Actually in scientific circles we have something called "meta studies" which is exactly what you describe, a study which itself collects many other studies and summarizes them" the difference between a meta study and what you posted is a metastudy uses scientific language and passes peer review. A post from a website oriented towards a layperson has neither of these properties.

     So yes i do agree that a single study doesnt say much. We would have to review the greater body of scific studies by showing them all, or rely on peer reviewed meta-studies. But a website oriented at the layperson is not really an acceptable source for serious study.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:53:37 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun ancestry means something subtly different. It refers to the colleections of people that donated their genetic material to you. The populations from which those people come from is still relevant however genetically.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:57:20 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No true, one sec I can easily find you a peer-reviewed source that points out that "populations" are used in place of "race" we as a community have covered it in depth.. one sec ill find a source

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 08:58:04 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun "black" and "white" arent populations/races .. neither is "hispanic" or "muslim" ... none of those are what scientist mean when they say population/race

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:00:24 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Here ya go, took a little digging to find one not behind a paywall so you can view it. This is a peer reviewed paper (linked at the bottom). So you dont have to go digging here is the quote where they specifically express that "populations" are now used in place of the word "race" because race is considered a "loaded term" (basically what i said a euphemism):

     Many terms requiring definition for use describe demographic population groups better than the term 'race' because they invite examination of the criteria for classification.

     https://www.nature.com/articles/ng1455

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:02:04 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I said from our very first message that race has little to no impact on social behavior. Never once did I claim otherwise. You kept insisting i said that and I kept insisting I didnt.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:04:37 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Sure lets go back to that if youd like.

     let me start with my assertion just so i can see if we are clear. Is the following statement correct or wrong:

     If i select one white person at random out of the USA population (based on how they are identified, regardless of if race is real)... and I also select one minority at random from the US population. Do you agree or disagree that the two people you selected have about the same chance of being a mass murderer (with the minority having a marginally higher chance)?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:10:56 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I have read the article. Again being non scientific and opinion based it left out a **lot** of technical detail and nuance that would be critical. In fact it is not disagreeing with me but we would have to discuss that nuance and detail for you to understand why.

     You said however you didnt want to discuss race further. Which is it?

     It sounds like every time i make a point that proves you wrong you want to slam the door shut ont he conversation then when you hear a point that backs up your claim you want to revive it again. How about if you want to revive the race talks we back up to where we left off then...

     Or drop it and go back to the original point, up to you.

     I appreciate that you are trying to be more respectful. I see your tone. I think your still being driven emotionally to some extent rather than being objective about the topic. Which isnt horrible, but it is making it hard to have productive discourse to some extent.

     Not trying to say your emotions are bad, these are important issues and i understand why one might get emotional about it. It just isnt productive to the conversation.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:13:23 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun

     1) I think I've reiterated about 6 times now that I do **not** think that behaviour is significantly influenced by race. You have made this point several times, i have told you it is **not** a point i agree with, yet you continue to claim it is a point I am makin... **again** it is not. Please please please try to listen more to what i am saying and not put words in my mouth (even if it is an innocent mistake)

     2) race/populations is very much applied in science all the time, just not in the sense of race that you seem to be defining it as (or as the opinion articles you posted describe it as).. which is where a lot of the confusion comes in (also why we use the word populations instead of race, to avoid that very confusion)

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:14:40 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun The irony of all of this is if you actually took the time to understand what I've beensaying i suspect you'd find it largely agrees with your own opinion. its just your hung up on some non-technical definition.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:16:48 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun You didnt answer my question you just went off on a tangent of your own..

     yes or not, are they of about equal chance or not?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:17:59 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun its also a fair answer to say you dont understand statistics well enough to know what the answer is... if you feel that is the case. Otherwise again i ask, do they stand equal chance when randomly selected or not

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:19:24 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No again your not listening...

     you keep on talking and having put any effort at all into understand what i was saying. I told you there was nuance and technical reasons why you are incorrect. I waited to see if you weregoing to ask what those were or if you'd just keep talking... guess which one you did.

     I have given **YOU** the good faith effort of reading everything you posted and remarking on it. however you have not given me the same.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:24:49 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Incorrect, why would the characteristics of a specific individual influence a process of random selection between all individuals. Only way those factors would influence your answer here is if i had fore-knowledge of those factors when making my selection and used them to determine who i selected. But then it would be a randomly selected individual anymore.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:25:38 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I'm saying a lot but based on your answer I see the problem now, you dont understand some fundemental ideas in statistics (its ok a lot of people dont Im not attacking you for it). I explained in my other reply why your answer is not correct.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:27:18 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun The whole point i was making with the post was that race has no influence on if someone is a mass shooter or not, which is exactly what you just agreed to.. Again as i said i imagine if you bothered to understand what I was saying youd likely agree with me.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:30:54 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I didnt get to the part of meaning yet.. we can discuss that next. First you have to agree that my statement is true (or make an educated case why it isnt).. after that we can go onto the next part where we break down if it is relevant or not.

     But you seem to be struggling witht he topic (statistics) a lot making it hard to get past the first question.

     Perhaps lets try again, now that i explained it do you agree with the following?

     If you randomly select a white person and one minority fromt he us population these people both have the same chance of being mass shooters?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:31:40 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun It doesnt deny most shooters are white, in fact it proves that they are... please again try and listen to people.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:36:07 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun It doesnt, that was never the point of the post. Thats just what you ASSSUMED was the point and ive just spent the last few hours repeating over and over was not the point and you werent listening.

     Race is irrelevant in determing a shooter, that **WAS** the point of the post. The fact that most white people ahve been shooters in the past is the result of them being the majority int he population, not due to them being white. Just as the majority of shooters were all taller than 4 feet, for the exact same reason.

     Again we have been agreeing all along, i have been trying to tell you we have been agreeing all along, but youve been too emotional to listen to me once in this long debate and realize that.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:40:05 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun wait are you now claiming that **all** mass shooters are white, not just **most**... I impled that the narrative that **all** mass shooters were white was a lit... It is, in fact a lie.

     Notice how your language jsut switched from the word "all" to "most" later in this same post?

     Please read things more carefully.

     Do you disagree with the fact that "all mass shooters are white" is a falsehood?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:41:00 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No i havent contradicted myself once, you just didnt bother to take the time to actually read what you just quoted, againt he qord **all** was critical in my statement and means something very different than **most**

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:43:21 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Actually i had about a dozen people that week reiterate to me that **all** mass shooters were white. I even hear people spit out specific numbers like "100%" and "99%" quite often. In fact the very fact that people claimed it was **all** is what drove me to look it up. It was such a pervasive claim at the time i expected there to be maybe one exception out of a hundred at most.

     my surprise when i saw the break down shows absolutely no correlation to race at all.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:48:43 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun huh? I dont even understand this last post. Are you saying i did not falsify the claim that 100% of shooters are white?

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:53:40 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Wow your still trying to find a way to make this and argument and win. Seriously is that the hill you want to die on.

     Look i have no animosity towards you as you clearly do towards me. I get it, your stuck in internet psychosis land where you cant back down from an argument once you start come hell or high water..

     But seriously trust me when i said if you just say "sorry your right i misinterprited what you said and assumed you meant something other than what you said, I agree and sorry for being so rude".. then i would go "dont worry about it, I've been there, it happens. I appreciate the apology. Just try next time to to hear people out and not jump to conclusions, it will all be int he past though, you have my respect"

     Then its over... trust me its much better than the alternative. You grow a lot more as a person doing that too.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 09:55:24 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I never even attempted to falsify the claim that most shooters were white. Not once. That was again you assuming something I never said.

     I **did** try to falsify the claim that **all** shooters are white, and the claim that race has a genetic influence on who is or is not a shooter.

     The two claims i did make fromt he beginning are both claims you agree with but somehow feel compelled to continue being adversarial and "right" anyway.

     Federation Bot repeated this.
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:02:16 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No i havent second guessed once. You have been so emotionally blinded you keep reading what you want to read instead of what i said. In each and every case I explained clearly what i said but you **assumed** wrongly i meant something else. That isnt second guessing.

     Look right now you look **really** childish to anyone viewing this thread. Just stop responding and take a minute and reread it. I think if you are honest with yourself you will admit you were very immature and childish is. Thats ok I forgive you, its not a big deal, we all make mistakes.

     But if this is going to be the hill you die on you really missing out on an important opportunity for personal growth here.

     I'm sure if you jsut say your sorry and admit you made a mistake anyone reading this tread would thing very different and see it as maturity and just an honest mistake, but more important than what people think of you (because fuck them am I right!) it is an opportunity for personal growth for you.

     I'm sure if you respond this way to most things you disagree with its going to be very hard for you to grow up and form an objective realistic view of the world and your own place in it.

     I know you mean well so i am trying to have infinite patience with you here. Please recognize this opportunity for personal growth and take it, I believe in you.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:03:14 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun and yes I do like to play the devils advocate. But I try my best to be honest when I do. Id i say i meant something a certain way I promise you, I did mean it that way.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:04:33 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun No i havent second guessed once. You have been so emotionally blinded you keep reading what you want to read instead of what i said. In each and every case I explained clearly what i said but you **assumed** wrongly i meant something else. That isnt second guessing.

     Look right now you look **really** childish to anyone viewing this thread. Just stop responding and take a minute and reread it. I think if you are honest with yourself you will admit you were very immature and childish is. Thats ok I forgive you, its not a big deal, we all make mistakes.

     But if this is going to be the hill you die on you really missing out on an important opportunity for personal growth here.

     I'm sure if you just say your sorry and admit you made a mistake anyone reading this tread would thing very different and see it as maturity and just an honest mistake, but more important than what people think of you (because fuck them am I right!) it is an opportunity for personal growth for you.

     I'm sure if you respond this way to most things you disagree with its going to be very hard for you to grow up and form an objective realistic view of the world and your own place in it.

     I know you mean well so i am trying to have infinite patience with you here. Please recognize this opportunity for personal growth and take it, I believe in you.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:06:31 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Sorry if that sounded condescending i reread it and it kinda did. that isnt my intent. I do sincerely think you mean well and are capable of being rational here if you take a minute to reflect.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:13:34 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun yes i understand that, but you also understand that i regularly post anti-right stuff too?

     y stance has always been the same 1) the extremist left is a huge problem 2) the extremist right is a huge problem

     Now i understand that you yourself are a leftist and might be offended by claim #1. You are welcome to be that of course. But do not assume just because I hate the left that I therefore love the right. I hate both equally.

     I voted for obama in the election and i voted for bernie in the primaries. I voted third party in hillary vs trump. I have never once voted republican.

     At best you can say i am a left-leaning centrist, which is somewhat fair. But that does not mean I am pro-right.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:15:33 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun The point was not "women are more of a problem" only that neither sex has any more of a violence problem than the other. Basically the same point as here, that sex has no genetic influence on behavior, that is by in large my point with that.

     Which is directly in response to all the memes and claims that men are more violent than women.

     Just as i will call out anti-male bullshit like "men are more violent" I will jsut as quickly call out anti-woman bullshit like "women arent as rational as men".. both are bullshit to me and ill be vocal against each when i hear it.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:18:14 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun lso re: the left creating the right. I think this conversation, with you representing the left, is actually a perfect demonstration of that. You cam in hostile fromt he get go and already created an isolation and us vs them mentality going in. The very thing i talked out against.

     You also said you have seen other things I posted, clearly these things bothered you. But you never once took the mature road and reached out to me and talked about it, tried to see if we had any common ground, and maybe try to understand things a bit better if you didnt like what you heard. Instead you read it and got mad and assumed i wasnt worth talking to. Again an example of the very thing I talked out against.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:20:12 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun One last thing and then i wont reply again unless you speak.

     I do want to say that i recognized that eventually you did become somewhat less aggressive, calmed down, and are more polite now than we first began. It did take a **lot** of effort on my part to get you to engage me respectfully but the fact that you did was still your choice.

     While you didnt apologize I do greatly respect you for at least coming that far. It is a step int he right direction and you have my respect for making that effort, so thank you. I do wish we could have taken it all the way though and gotten to an apology.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:21:40 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun I'm not american, I fled america some time ago. I have legally changed my residence as well. I am a EU resident now,, specifically the Netherlands. By dutch standards I am actually considered liberal, not centrist, i am only centrist by american standards. Here my vote is 100% liberal.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:23:42 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Good bye, I wish you all the best. FYI the last thing i experienced before fleeing to the netherlands was ANTIFA throwing explosives at an old couple wearing a MAGA hat. that was the event that caused me to flee and move my residency to the NEtherlands. It is also why as a long term democrat voter i shifted my opinion to feel the left are just as bad as the right.

     Hope that helps you to understand. Otherwise good bye, you wont hear from me again.

     I wish you all the best and hope you find peace and happiness.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Sep-2019 10:29:30 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • auramun /ᐠ・ᆽ・ᐟ✿ \

     @auramun Shame, you were so close to such an important opportunity of growth (and no i dont mean agreeing with me, I dont care about that)...

     Good bye, if you ever change you rmind you are always most welcome to reach out to me anytime and talk.

     Have a lovely day.