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1. Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Sep-2019 16:22:10 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

   I'm not as interested in discussing the details of what RMS said this time as I am in recognizing this as a regularly occuring pattern of behavior, and how hard it makes life for the FOSS community to push for the ideals we collectively believe in.

   If a single person or organization in the environmental movement does something that seems deeply problematic, it doesn't feel like it threatens the end of environmentalism.

   So how did we end up in this state? How can we change that?

   • Adonay Felipe Nogueira repeated this.
   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Sep-2019 16:22:23 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     (That's not to say that what rms said in particular this time isn't deeply... troubling and significant, just that the pattern and the difficult situation it puts us in is what I'm interested in bringing to light to my fellow activists.)

     Adonay Felipe Nogueira repeated this.
   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Sep-2019 16:25:04 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     This is also a problem because we *do* need principled positions right now. I look at the OSI license discuss / review mailing lists right now and see us at the edge of people really screwing up everything, and having clearly articulated principles is how we can resist breaking those things.

     But thus far all those principles rest on the reputation of one person, and that person isn't doing a good job of maintaining their reputation (and thus ours).

     What to do next?

     Adonay Felipe Nogueira repeated this.
   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Sep-2019 16:26:16 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     I am interested in a critical analysis and re-formulation of the foundations of our principles. Principles matter, and it's probably about time that we examine them more carefully than relying on the thinking of one person, even if that person has done a good job at the *philosophy and principles* portion historically.

     Adonay Felipe Nogueira repeated this.
   • natacha (natacha@ps.s10y.eu)'s status on Monday, 16-Sep-2019 17:22:26 UTC natacha

     • https://v2.jacky.wtf/
     • cj 🇺🇸🇨🇭

     @cwebber @jalcine @cj
     Well I also jump in because I am quite shocked by the whole thing. I do not think that its about leadership, but more about community organisations, it has been very long that people say rms is problematic, and it has been like shouting in the void, I wonder maybe even he will still be invited to speak as a hero. And people will continue claiming being apolitical why promoting the violent system in place.

     Adonay Felipe Nogueira repeated this.