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1. 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:19:03 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   • The_Gibson :veilid:

   @thegibson I really wish he would resign, I hate him. But his approval rating is higher than Obama right now so he probably feels, especially given his ego, that he has a duty not to.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:30:01 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:

     @thegibson
     Trumps approval rating has been above 50% and for months on end at times

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:32:26 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:

     @thegibson

     As a data scientist I can say that's a patently false statement. The approval rating above 50% has been consistently reported across different polls at different times

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:35:17 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:

     @thegibson
     I'm not painting pictures I'm simply stating facts. Trumps approval rating has been above 50% for various periods, sometimes for months on end. This is simply a fact. There are other numbers to consider but doesn't really change this fact

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:37:46 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson how do you lose an election by 3 million votes and then get an above 50% approval rating?
     
     Think about it. It doesn't really add up.
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:39:57 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     Actually if you think about it, it does. An approval rating is measured through out the career of a president not just at the moment of the election.

     Approval rating also shows approval from all Americans not just the ones who will vote.

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:41:45 UTC Ruby Rhod

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @thegibson @freemo do you really think people who voted against him actually woke up some day in the past 2 years and said "you know what, this Trump fella is alright"?
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:43:14 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • saxnot

     @saxnot
     Tho clarify his peak approval rating shortly after election was 58% not 51%. It has declined since however even though at the moment he keeps beating out Obama even which is surprising

     @thegibson

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:44:27 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld
     Did you not read what I said? Approval rating is not limited to the voting public. It is not a representation of what the vote will be, it's a representation of how many people approve of his work. Not the same thing at all
     @thegibson

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 15:45:45 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     • djsumdog

     @djsumdog
     Dependa which one? I've reviewed over a dozen such approval rating polls and all that passed some formal objective process had similar results. So you'll have to be specific, which of the dozen or so polls that we data scientist use are you curious about?
     @feld @thegibson

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:02:47 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • saxnot
     • djsumdog

     What I find particularly alarming about this conversation is how much it mirrors the election which got him in office int he first place. The left was so cock sure that Trump's support was too low to ever stand a chance that the left convinced themselves they had a sure win, as a result their voter turnout was lower than it would ottherwise have been and trump, actually having a decent amount of support, won.

     Here we are again with someone stating a very objective and obvious fact that Trump had a peak approval rating around 58% and currently passes Obama's approval rating now.

     By denying yourselves the facts and fooling yourself into the idea that no one likes him (which sadly isnt true) you will just garuntee him another 4 years. Then again I'm not sure a strong enough democratic politician will the primaries anyway. The few democratic politicians who werent particular extreme in their policies and thus stood a good chance of dethroning trump seem to also be WAY behind in the primaries.

     So while I really really want Trump to loose and be replaced with a competent politician, if this thread is any indication, he will likely get another 4 year ssadly.

     @djsumdog @saxnot @thegibson

     🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 repeated this.
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:06:09 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:

     @0

     Not true, but hey believe what ya want. I already fled america for another country. So for believing that lie will cost you, not me, another 4 years of trump.

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:33:54 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson I know how polling works, I was once aqui-hired by Gallup for our polling tech. Polls have less value than we place on them.
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:37:52 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     At no point did I tell you how much value you should put into the poll.

     But you have two choices as someone who opposes trump

     1) convince ourselves to reject anything that sounds like it could remotely be construed as something positive about trump, and as a result of that group denial not be informed enough to help make a educated and effective plan to dethrone him.. or...

     2) recognize the reality, that a lot, even perhaps a majority (or damn close), of people do support him and try to fight against that issue head on, well educated, and possibly even be effective at combating it.

     Choice is yours. But all I saw last election and since from the democrats is #1 with very little of #2. so I fled the country with little to no hope of the democrats pulling it together in time.

     I do hope you and others prove me wrong though and get trump out of office and maybe even get a half-decent candidate through the primaries... I dont have high hopes though given the facts.

     @thegibson

   • 💀Undead Bill💀 (bill@bsd.network)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:43:39 UTC 💀Undead Bill💀

     in reply to

     @freemo
     I'm not at all surprised DJT's approval rating is so high. There are a lot of people who approve of his policies in private. among folks they feel would sympathize. They would never say that in mixed company.
     Unfortunately. I often am mistaken for being a sympathizer when I'm merely a sympathetic listener. So. yeah. I can see the disparity between disapproval and approval in this - 1/2

     🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 repeated this.
   • 💀Undead Bill💀 (bill@bsd.network)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:43:40 UTC 💀Undead Bill💀

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • saxnot

     @freemo @saxnot @thegibson Not listening to the numbers is how HRC thought she had it in the bag. Twice. @saxnot @thegibson - 2/2

     🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 repeated this.
   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:55:03 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson last election was bungled for various reasons we are all aware of.
     
     If you look this time we have people actually talking about real issues, and we have citizens actively hurting from his policies. Economies being destroyed. Look at what is happening to our farmers with their markets gone.
     
     I'm certain this time will be different. I'm happy to point out his crimes in office all day long, but I'm also pointing at the productive policies that have gained traction which will help everyone regardless of party.
     
     Trump's only messaging is "they're attacking me, I'm the best, economy is greatest" which is patently false and many of his voters are seeing it. Voters, not supporters. I think there's a clear distinction here.
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 16:58:32 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     You dont need to convince me trump is bad. Problem is the top three democrats look "bad" to me too. Dont get me wrong I'd take most over trump, except Biden not a chance I'd vote for him. But I doubt any of the top three will stand a chance against Trump personally.

     Even my mexican friend who is strongly anti-trump said if any of the top three dems win it she will go third party.

     I dunno not looking as good to me as it does to you IMO

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:00:24 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson who are you saying is top 3? Biden Warren and Sanders?
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:00:55 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     yes

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:05:47 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson Very concerned about Biden, but not Warren or Sanders.
     
     C'mon, how would Sanders lose with this, and this date is out of date
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:12:58 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     Brcause individual donnors does **not** (and never has) been a very good predictor of who wins?

     Sanders just went in for major heart surgery. That alone is likely going to destroy his chances since most were already uncertain at his age. Combine that with the fact that he is the most extremist economically with a desire to spend more money than anyone up there, yet does not offset that in any way with lowering the taxes on the rich and middle class.

     All of his policies will be loved by the very few anti-capitalist types out there maybe, but overall he is unlikely to gain any support from people on the right, and even limited support from his own party.

     Last electrion Sanders was my top choice and I supported him strongly, would have been happy to vote for him. However when he supported the DNC following the undemocratic way he was dealth with and even supported hillary after that, at that moment I promised not to vote for sanders ever again, as did many others.

     Point is, he is far too extremist to stand a chance of pulling in anyone center or right of center.

     To give you an idea I live int he Netherlands, basically one of, if not the most, socialistic countries in all of europe. Even here is is treated a bit like a joke (usually jokes about him printing money to pay for things).

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:14:57 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson a good predictor of who wins is actually gerrymandering
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:22:30 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     And what does recent gerrymandering tell you would win this year then?

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:22:57 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson I don't think anyone believes electing Bernie will cause all of his policy proposals to instantly be enacted into law. Its about a momentum shift in our direction and getting the average person more engaged in politics and showing that change can happen.
     
     The suffering under medical and education debt does not adhere to party lines.
     
     I don't think a lot of his platform can be expected to happen in 4 or even 8 years. And I don't think anyone should worry about him dying in office. That's not how it works. People weren't scared of FDR being in a wheelchair. They respected him.
   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:24:53 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson without an increase in voter turnout to defeat gerrymandering it would be Trump.
     
     I think Bernie has the best shot at increasing voter turnout.
     
     And nobody should be mad at Bernie for not fighting back last round. Party infighting would have hurt either Dem candidate.
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:27:12 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     I have no respect for someone who lets injustie go by without addressing it and even supporting the group while they do it, none. I always said if bernie left the DNC after that instance and went third party he had my vote, or even if he just say by silently and did nothing. Second he endorsed the paper he lots a LOT of votes, including mine.

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:30:19 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo @thegibson meanwhile all my friends wrote in Bernie (Wisconsin)
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:31:16 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld Im so confused why you think garymandering has anything to do with this conversation at all...

     Do you feel there have been specific changes in garymandering that somehow effects this election more so than last?

     I mean I think we all can agree garymandering is bad when the democrats do it and when the republicans do it. Just not sure why you felt it was relevant to the topic at hand.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:33:10 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld

     Despite what many of your friends might have done considering there were **very** few bernie sanders write ins overall in terms of percentages im not sure thats going to say much.

     @thegibson

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:35:52 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo because my state had significantly more Dem votes but the government is controlled by Republicans still. We only got the governor and house.
     
     It's getting worse especially with the voter disenfranchisement going on.
     
     And please show me historical district maps where Dems have done this.
     
     http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/30/gerrymanders-part-1-busting-the-both-sides-do-it-myth/
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:40:46 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld I have no intention on going into an unrelated tangent. My point remains garymandering has absolutely nothing to do with the current points being discussed.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 18:42:55 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Ruby Rhod

     @feld By the way out of curiosity I just checked a list of historic garymandering. In the list were examples of democrat AND republican garymandering

     While again unrelated to the topic at hand it does seem like another example of denying the actual facts for the facts you want to see. Which as we covered seems to be what gets the dems in the most trouble.

   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 19:58:16 UTC Ruby Rhod

     • Ruby Rhod
     @dude @freemo extreme how? I don't see anything too alarming about MD6 and MD8 there
   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 20:07:27 UTC Ruby Rhod

     • Ruby Rhod
     @dude @freemo just from the picture it's awful hard to see what's going on without being able to identify where the cities and population are, racial and financial makeup of the constituents
   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 20:08:42 UTC Ruby Rhod

     in reply to

     • Ruby Rhod
     @freemo I'd like to know more about this please send me the papers studying this
   • Ruby Rhod (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2019 20:46:19 UTC Ruby Rhod

     • Ruby Rhod
     @dude @freemo thanks I'll check it later. I don't support anyone doing this; the districts need to be drawn as fair as we can
   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 13-Oct-2019 06:10:16 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • The_Gibson :veilid:
     • mkb
     • saxnot

     @mkb

     I agree but part of the reason is that while democratic politicians are more charismatic they appear to be just as evil (or very close to it). So i think it has more to do with tthe democrats pushing people away than it has to do with any real appeal from trump.

     Especially when the dems have went overdrive on the whole "I will be offended, boycott, and disown, anyone who is a conservative sympathizer". This sort of behavior is a garunteed way to drive more people to the conservative side, just human nature. Intolerance leads to increased opposition.

     @saxnot @thegibson