Conversation

Notices

1. 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Dec-2019 08:32:05 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   For Chrismas I wanted to share this very relevant quote. Especially at a time when the USA is ethically defunct due to left and right extremism and attacks this message is of particular relevance.

   This quote is from the end of Lincoln's Getty's Burg Address:

   In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow-countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The Government will not assail you. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. You have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the Government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend it."
   I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

   #Christmas #MerryChristmas #usa #uspol #lincoln #altright #altleft

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Dec-2019 09:46:20 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • timorl

     @timorl Incorrect, the term alt-right was coined by Paul Gottfried who himself is not a member of the alt-right community. He used it as a descriptive term in its full form "alternative right" which as a descriptive term is also applicable to those on the left.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Dec-2019 10:20:34 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • timorl

     @timorl I use alternative right now as a label that they identify with but I use it the same way Paul did, an accurate descriptor.

     Alternative left, like alternative right, means the group of people who hold alternative views to the traditional liberal views of the left, yet still describe themselves as left despite their contradiction of the ideals.

     In this case it refers to the members of the left who act in ways that assault personal liverties and freedoms as well as equality among races, religions, and sex, which tend to be the driving ideals of the more classical left.

     By extension this also tends to include virtually everyone on the left who deals in extremism as well with almost no exceptions.

     So I use it in the same way Paul originally used the term, as an apt descriptor for a group of people.

     It should also be pointed out the vast majority of people who are labeled as alt-right do in fact deny that label, just as the vast majority of people who are alt-left will deny that label.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Dec-2019 10:42:53 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • timorl

     @timorl Neither the alt-right nor the alt left is a "single coherent political movement" so that is true. Neither are organized self-described terms with an explicit set of official ideals.

     Using it as a generalization is the only way either of these terms can actually be used.

     I'm not sur5e a small minority of the alt-right embracing the label is much of an indicator of anything other than their own agreement that they dont agree with mainstream conservative views.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Dec-2019 12:28:51 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • timorl

     @timorl I use alternative right not as a label that they identify with but I use it the same way Paul did, an accurate descriptor.

     Alternative left, like alternative right, means the group of people who hold alternative views to the traditional liberal views of the left, yet still describe themselves as left despite their contradiction of the ideals.

     In this case it refers to the members of the left who act in ways that assault personal liverties and freedoms as well as equality among races, religions, and sex, which tend to be the driving ideals of the more classical left.

     By extension this also tends to include virtually everyone on the left who deals in extremism as well with almost no exceptions.

     So I use it in the same way Paul originally used the term, as an apt descriptor for a group of people.

     It should also be pointed out the vast majority of people who are labeled as alt-right do in fact deny that label, just as the vast majority of people who are alt-left will deny that label.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2019 21:15:27 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • SecondJon
     • timorl

     @timorl @SecondJon

     I think you both are missing one important fact.. People int he alt-right consider themselves part of the right but alternative to the mainstream views and consider their own views to be the "true" right ideals, as most extreamist groups do.

     But similarly the classical right view them very differently. They see them as anti-right, entierly outside of the right and not representative of it. They reject their ideals as "false".

     Wether the group is outside or inclusive to the right depends entierly on who you ask.

     However the left seems to have its alt-left embraces by the mainstream left far more so than the counter scenario on the right in my expiernce. Though the pattern does still apply for them as well.

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2019 21:20:21 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • SecondJon
     • timorl

     @georgia

     Even then its only the middle left that sees them as crazy.. The true left (just shy of extremism) just sees them as "passionate"

     @SecondJon @timorl

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2019 21:24:44 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • SecondJon
     • timorl
     • don't bulli me anymore

     @mewmew

     I'm more concerned with the ones starting riots, violence, blocking traffic. When I think of the extremist left I'm not really worrying about the stoner who dreams of a world where he never has to work again. I'm more worried about the guy brining a knife or some fireworks to a protest to use on people.

     @timorl @SecondJon @georgia

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2019 21:25:40 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • SecondJon
     • timorl
     • don't bulli me anymore

     @mewmew

     I'm more concerned with the ones starting riots, violence, blocking traffic. When I think of the extremist left I'm not really worrying about the stoner who dreams of a world where he never has to work again. I'm more worried about the guy brining a knife or some fireworks to a protest to use on people.

     Or even the more benign people who are using force to take away peoples right to speech I often see (like sabotaging sound equipment or similar.

     @timorl @SecondJon @georgia

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2019 21:34:12 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     • SecondJon
     • timorl
     • don't bulli me anymore

     @legend

     If your blocking traffic on a major road your hurting all sorts of people from emergency services to hundreds or thousands of people trying to go to work. No one has that moral right.

     @mewmew
     @georgia @SecondJon @timorl

   • 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2019 21:38:23 UTC 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     @legend What hyperbolic nonsense. None said itt would all come toppling down. You don't have to destroy society to still be an asshole that causes massive financial damge to thousands of working families