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1. Christian (christian_zerfass@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 01-Nov-2021 18:00:12 UTC Christian

   Interesting... France imposing minimum book prices to prevent online sellers from outcompeting local stores: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/01/bookshops-thrive-as-france-moves-to-protect-sellers-from-amazon

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 01-Nov-2021 18:00:05 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     @christian_zerfass There's a maximum discount (5%) law here in Spain long before online shops, to protect small book stores (and small publishers) from big chains. I think it's the same in Germany and more countries.

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 00:53:39 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @jens @christian_zerfass It's better than nothing at all.

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 00:53:43 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass Except the German law protects big retailers from innovation by smaller shops. Something like a Humble Bundle, for example, is illegal in Germany.

     The price of a book must remain the same, irrespective of where it's sold. You can't discount it by packaging it with something else. Which means you can only improve your margins on the buying side, i.e. big retailers who buy in bulk can get margins small shops cannot.

     It's a scam.

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 08:32:57 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @jens @christian_zerfass

     Look, big chains and online shops know perfectly what a bundle is. And they always get a better price from their common suppliers no matter what are the market conditions, just because they buy big. There's no "innovation" that can save small stores against big actors that can bury you instantly in a price war. That's the old freemarketist fairy tale.

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 08:33:01 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass Actually, it's worse than nothing. It actively prevents smaller shops from finding ways to make their stuff more attractive than that of big retailers. The law is insidious; it preaches equal chances for all, but equal chances always benefit those with the better market position. In effect, it protects the quasi monopolies of the large stores by pretending fairness.

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 09:52:08 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @jens @christian_zerfass Amazon would never accept a higher price, not in the wildest dream. Also, most publishers don't deal with points of sale directly (nor they pay fees to Amazon).

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 09:52:13 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass I'm looking at this from the publisher's angle. If you can set a higher price on Amazon, you can absorb their ridiculous fees better than if you can't.

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 10:12:09 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @christian_zerfass @jens Actually creators (if by that you mean authors) tend to be out of this equation. They sign a contract with the publisher where a percentage (namely "royalties", usually an 8-10%) of the fixed price of every book sold is to be paid to them (discounts don't apply).

   • Christian (christian_zerfass@fediscience.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 10:12:10 UTC Christian

     in reply to

     • Tagomago
     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @tagomago @jens

     I think tagomagos point is a good one. Fix the sales price, and big distributors with worldwide network can increase the margin by paying creators less per book but more in total (more sales).

     In the Guardian article, it is also shown how a French minister called on people to buy local rather than online. It is true that only if people follow the call does a fixed consumer price help the book stores, as price competition is no factor.

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 17:58:18 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @jens @christian_zerfass

     >In Germany, it's pretty easy to get orders directly from points of sale.

     Of course you can, but that's not what you want to do, unless you're forced to because you don't have proper distribution, that is, a deal with a distribution company that takes care of that section of the supply chain, which is the MO for, I'd say, 95% of the market. If you're in the business you must know the drill.

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 17:58:26 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass Well, speaking as someone who's been a small time publisher a few times, that's wishful thinking.

     But it's possible it's different from locality to locality. In Germany, it's pretty easy to get orders directly from points of sale.

   • Tagomago (tagomago@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 18:25:54 UTC Tagomago

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     @jens @christian_zerfass

     Actually we were talking about the effect of that measure on protecting small bookshops, which are crucial to maintain cultural diversity.

     Distributors (and bookshops, which normally get a higher percentage of the cake) also have to pay staff and rent. When books don't sale nobody wins, and that's not within the scope of the fixed price model.

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 18:25:58 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass ... doesn't necessarily sell out in the year it's printed. Maybe.

     So you have to look towards 10+ unique books published a year to get even close to breaking even. Which is next to impossible to manage for a team of 2-3.

     This has two direct results: a) most small publishing houses are side businesses, because they cannot function otherwise. And b) literally every cent counts.

     Distributors that take in the tens of percentage...

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 18:26:00 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass I mean, we're talking about what a fixed price gives smaller entrants into the market. That's the whole context.

     We're talking publishers here with less than a handful of staff. Which means they have to generate a hundred+ thousand/year for salary alone. Small print runs are in the hundreds, usually, rarely the lower thousands. At EUR 15 a pop or so, it's rare for a single book to bring in more than 10k in sales. Also, a print run...

   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2021 18:26:04 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     • Tagomago

     @tagomago @christian_zerfass If you're a small publisher, a distributor will take as much of your margins as Amazon, give or take, i.e. too much to make a living.