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1. The New Oil (thenewoil@freeradical.zone)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:30 UTC The New Oil

   #Telegram will be adding ads

   https://telegram.dog/durov/142

   • grin (grin@fika.grin.hu)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:08 UTC grin

     in reply to

     • Bernie
     • grin
     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:
     @grin @codewiz @kzimmermann @thenewoil By the way there's a bunch of people on Matrix at #fidonet:grin.hu aka. #fidonet:matrix.org
   • grin (grin@mastodon.grin.hu)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:16 UTC grin

     in reply to

     • Bernie
     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @codewiz
     People want real-time, fido was batched. We had our share of idiots but using it required tech knowledge and high efforts. Now it's just buying a computer in a shop then start abusing services. Can't tell which is better in the long run though.
     Hi from 2:370/15 😏

     @kzimmermann @thenewoil

     Bernie repeated this.
   • Bernie (codewiz@mstdn.io)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:17 UTC Bernie

     in reply to

     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @kzimmermann @thenewoil Today it's both easier and harder: no special telco equipment, cheap data, cheap & reliable computers.

     But it's harder because user expectations are so damn high. You can't just give a free email account to make them happy. And then there's abuse. Lots of it. If you run a wiki or any publishing platform, it will be filled with spam. And so, running a free service today has become a tedious, thankless job today 😞

   • Bernie (codewiz@mstdn.io)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:25 UTC Bernie

     in reply to

     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @kzimmermann @thenewoil Years before the Internet became available outside universities, I was running a #FidoNet node, a network of #BBS which allowed users to exchange mail and post to discussion groups.

     We were volunteer-driven and funded by donations. More hierarchical and more bureaucratic than the #fediverse: we had elections for administrative roles, a long policy everyone had to agree to, voting for policy changes...

     FidoNet reached 20k nodes at its apogee.

   • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: (kzimmermann@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:25 UTC Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     in reply to

     • Bernie
     • The New Oil

     @codewiz
     Nice! I can only imagine how it was doing that. If we can replicate that model in today's environment it would be great, but would require quite a lot of self organization I guess
     @thenewoil

   • Bernie (codewiz@mstdn.io)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:26 UTC Bernie

     in reply to

     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @kzimmermann @thenewoil I quite like Telegram, yes, but I wish there was a way to scale federated networks for the masses. I don't think XMPP would work. Maybe Matrix, if they solve their current reliability issues.

   • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: (kzimmermann@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:27 UTC Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     in reply to

     • Bernie
     • The New Oil

     @codewiz thank you for the insight. I understand he had a tough choice to make.

     On the other hand, though, on of the strengths behind a federation is that nobody needs to be the "backbone" of it. This is not to say that everyone easily can, will or even wants to self-host, but the possibility at least is there - in the code.

     But of course, being free to choose is even more important than federating, so if you like Telegram, by all means keep using it - it's just that I won't.

     @thenewoil

   • Bernie (codewiz@mstdn.io)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:28 UTC Bernie

     in reply to

     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @kzimmermann @thenewoil Ads in chats? I didn't read it that way.

     On the contrary, it seems Telegram has found a good balance to support development and server infrastructure for 500M users without turning into another Facebook.

     XMPP is 100% free, but have you ever thought who's running the infrastructure? Can we really expect end-users to run their own servers? And if we had single-digit users per server, would s2s connections scale to 500M users? I highly doubt it.

   • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: (kzimmermann@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:43:29 UTC Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     in reply to

     • The New Oil

     I never liked #Telegram in first place.

     Shady homebrew crypto that once got broken, crowning themselves as "savior of #privacy" when nobody can verify the whole stack, and now this: #ads in chats.

     https://telegram.dog/durov/142

     Use #XMPP with proper #e2ee (like #OMEMO) or nothing at all. You can't have a realistic expectation of privacy otherwise.

     Link by @thenewoil ne

   • Bernie (codewiz@mstdn.io)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:53:25 UTC Bernie

     in reply to

     • The New Oil
     • kaip
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @kaip @kzimmermann @thenewoil Isn't this also what IRC always did? How can rooms work in XMPP without server-to-server synchronization?

   • kaip@social.tchncs.de's status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 22:53:26 UTC kaip

     in reply to

     • Bernie
     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @codewiz @kzimmermann @thenewoil Not sure why #Matrix should scale better than #XMPP . Matrix synchronizes room state across all participating servers, which is much more expensive.

   • kaip@social.tchncs.de's status on Friday, 04-Feb-2022 07:31:13 UTC kaip

     in reply to

     • Bernie
     • The New Oil
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @codewiz @kzimmermann @thenewoil A room (MUC) is hosted on any instance and clients can connect to it just like you can connect to other users on remote instances.

   • Bernie (codewiz@mstdn.io)'s status on Friday, 04-Feb-2022 07:31:13 UTC Bernie

     in reply to

     • The New Oil
     • kaip
     • Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

     @kaip @kzimmermann @thenewoil Oh, of course! Jabber rooms were bound to a specific server. And Matrix rooms also have a domain, so it's probably the same.

     Routing messages through servers seems like a good idea for two reasons:
     1. clients only need a single connection (lower bandwidth and power usage)
     2. servers hosting large rooms don't have to relay each message N times