@daggsy @shpuld a skilled player at pong will be able to estimate trajectory and skillfully place their paddle, keeping a good score. an unskilled player will not, and get a bad score. just because you're moving the paddle up/down doesn't mean you can't do it better than another. unlike tick-tack-toe, someone will eventually win given you have two human opponents. rhythm games (assuming ones without difficulty settings, like rhythm heaven) usually depend on skill: beyond memorizing the layout, hitting the button at the right time can give a better score, as does missing 0 notes. a skilled rhythm game player will score higher than an unskilled player (someone who has learned the basic mechanics). QTEs as in TWD give no test of skill, it's a rhythm game with one note, an extremely wide time frame, and with no difference between good and poor performance outside of failure.

and i agree achievements are never good: they discourage in-game rewards for skillful play, like the alternate endings to the metroid games with low time. incidentally, metroid prime trilogy implemented achievements fairly well, allowing you to spend the points on concept art or other goodies.