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1. ghostDancer (ghostdancer@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 18:50:50 UTC ghostDancer

   • Chris
   @csaurus it depends on google services for backend , the app is foss but the infrastructure it relies on,  it's not and they don't want it
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 19:19:13 UTC vinzv

     • Chris
     @csaurus There once was libresignal in fdroid which used websockets for push messages. The devs of signal tried to force removal by legal threatening, which is one major reason why I don't use signal anymore.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 19:45:22 UTC vinzv

     • Chris
     @csaurus Yes, it's a mess. Every messenger has it's (imho critical) downsides. Sticking with XMPP is the best solution for me.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 20:21:32 UTC vinzv

     • Chris
     @csaurus Which is the same tragedy as with Thunderbird/Enigmail/PGP: too complicated, too much steps to take, not intuitive enough. It's a thing where tech-savvy people and devs have lost years being lazy.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 20:34:46 UTC vinzv

     • Nakal
     @nakal What I meant was that less tech savvy people even have to know about techniques existing. Afterwards there needs to be field testing, UX development etc.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 20:51:16 UTC vinzv

     • Chris
     @csaurus Yes but that is not only the users' fault. Just check how many linux/foss guys are jumping around at G+. A constantly rising number of KDE related projects use Telegram for their community affairs. That's all people how *know* the risks but still ignore them. So who can blame users for being in the dark if they are left there by their responsible role models?
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 21:03:02 UTC vinzv

     • Nakal
     @nakal I disagree and point at what @sim answered. This world ain't black and white only luckily.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 21:32:29 UTC vinzv

     • Nakal
     @nakal Needing to learn doesn't imply reading documentation. Just sayin.
     Cristóbal likes this.
     Cristóbal repeated this.
   • Cristóbal (gallux@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 21:46:25 UTC Cristóbal

     in reply to

     • vinzv
     • Nakal
     @vinzv You should say it on #freebsd forums
     
     @nakal
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 22:03:40 UTC vinzv

     • Nakal
     @nakal I didn't say people are avoiding it. I just said that needing to learn doesn't imply that they have to read the documentation. They could watch tutorial videos, ask friends etc. Sticking to documentation of course is important but it's not the holy grail to using things. Especially if these things are built for the ease of use.
   • Nakal (nakal@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 22:05:02 UTC Nakal

     in reply to

     • Cristóbal
     @gallux89 I point people to docs in forums. They are mostly thankful and say something like "Wow! This is really documented? Great!".
     
     Finding docs might be difficult, if it gets very specific. But if it is a very basic question like "How can I use PGP/XMPP?"? Come on..
     Cristóbal repeated this.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 22:08:52 UTC vinzv

     • Nakal
     @nakal Talking of XMPP: Conversations on Android is a great example for no need of documentation. It's a well designed UI with self-explanatory use.
     Don't get me wrong: complex things need deep documentation. Things made for easy use need to avoid that as it either keeps people away from using or eats dev's time on writing docs.
   • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Oct-2016 22:19:17 UTC vinzv

     • Nakal
     @nakal Then we'll have to leave it at this point. I have to go and check the docs of my fridge, just in case I misused it for years. ;-)