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Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2017 00:31:53 UTC 
Danyl Strype
@natecull maybe I was reading between the lines but the point I took away was that an "alternative" depends on a "mainstream" ... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2017 05:22:46 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @enkiv2 @pnathan @stuc "cloud" was an excellent sales con for convincing companies to swap perfectly good self-hosted servers... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2017 05:24:17 UTC
Danyl Strype
@enkiv2 @pnathan @natecull @stuc ...for remote crap controlled elsewhere, that charges them every time they want to change how they use it -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2017 05:32:19 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @enkiv2 @natecull @stuc define "solid technology architecture" -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 01:18:01 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @enkiv2 @natecull @stuc this was the arguments for mainframes and dumb terminals. Remind me what happened when PCs took off? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 01:27:39 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan yup, my reasoning is similar to what @natecull said . Cloud = folks like Mencius Goldbug pwning your data
http://qttr.at/1ysm -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 01:31:06 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull Amazon has warehouse workers living in tents because they can't afford rent. Peter Thiel all but bought citizenship of NZ -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 01:33:27 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull These are not trustworthy people to have running essential public data infrastructure
http://qttr.at/1ysn -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 02:10:44 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan to the degree that's true, it's because of Microsoft and proprietary software, not PCs. The"cloud" is the server-side equivalent -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 02:14:52 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan "cloud" is even harder than client-side proprietary software for users (or in-house tech people) to study and modify for their need -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 02:16:07 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan link please? I'd be interested to have a read -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 02:32:16 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan cool. My wife used #Zotero for tracking sources for her PhD, it's a good tool for sharing bibliography with notes -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 02:53:15 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan anyway I agree that we're talking about different measures; technical efficiency vs. social outcomes. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 02:55:29 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan it's possible to have the pros of "cloud" *and* provide transparency, use free code, and respect users #Disroot
http://qttr.at/1yss -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 08:08:50 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan before he founded the #GNUProject, Stallman considered a lobbying campaign to make software freedom a set of legal requirements... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 08:09:44 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan ... at the time he felt a direct action project to rebuild proprietary software and liberate it seemed more politically realistic. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 08:12:25 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan given the role of both state and corporations in the surveillance Armageddon, I don't see any reason to think that's changed -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 08:14:49 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan he's not the only person in the industry who sees #DirectAction as more realistic than relying on regulation
http://qttr.at/1yt1 -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 08:26:50 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @pnathan I'm *very* suspicious of arguments based on increasing "efficiency". Privatization of public good often starts there -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 09:36:09 UTC
Danyl Strype
@szbalint doesn't seem to agree that "cloud" provides better performance either @pnathan @enkiv2 @natecull @stuc
http://qttr.at/1yt2 -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 09:36:53 UTC
Danyl Strype
@enkiv2 @pnathan @natecull @stuc @szbalint IMHO a VM that doesn't work exactly the same as your OS running on bare metal is faulty -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2017 09:38:28 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan see also the #TEDTalk by #TristanHarris, formerly of the GoogleBeast
http://qttr.at/1yt3Danyl Strype likes this. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 01:55:16 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd wow. Where to start. Centralization and standardization are two *totally* different things. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 01:56:06 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd the fact that you would argue otherwise makes it clear that you are arguing backwards from an assumption... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 01:56:50 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd ...rather than arguing towards whatever conclusion the data might actually lead to. #TrueBeliever -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 01:58:26 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd the premise you are committed to is "centralization is good" > "cloud is good". I accept neither assumption -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 01:59:24 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd some level of coordination has benefits over none. For example, I support the development of (libre) standards. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:01:07 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd But history shows that centralization leads to fragile system, not to mention tyranny (eg USSR). -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:02:50 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd decentralized systems may be less "efficient", but they are *much* more resilient. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:03:16 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd when the #birdsite goes down, it *all* goes down. Very few conditions could bring the entire #fediverse down -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:19:48 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd all that said, I do support campaigns for better regulation. For example:
http://qttr.at/1w75 -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:20:36 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd but regulating an amorphous global phenomenon like the net is far from simple... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:22:39 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd ...even without powerful industries who don't want better international regulation, and who block it at every turn -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 02:24:12 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd playing whack-a-mole with #TheStacks and startups seems less effective longterm than providing replacements for them -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:01:06 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd it's an anarchist premise that centralization and standardization are not the same thing? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:02:44 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd I thought that was just pointing out the obvious. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:09:52 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @cjd but ok, let's see if I can respond individually to each of your scenarios in 140 characters or less -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:10:55 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan I agree these are risks but this is what we already see happening in #TheStacks. In the #Fediverse people have the option to move Zone-Up repeated this. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:13:25 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan we're not just talking about a hammer. We're talking about where we buy hammers, how they're made etc. People do care about this -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:14:30 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan most people won't make their own hammer, true, but they would buy a #FairTrade hammer over a sweatshop hammer, for example -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:16:06 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan many people would buy the #FairTrade hammer *even* if costs more, and isn't as technically perfect (yet) as the sweatshop hammer -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:16:36 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan This is a strawman. @natecull isn't an anarchist either. He and I have many debates about the pros and cons of the state. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 03:20:05 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan this is a false dichotomy. It's not an either/ or. Free software activists are more likely to be politically active than most folks -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:47:29 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @cjd I don't disagree with any of this. But that doesn't mean the opposite of this = true. Given two options, I take the third -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:48:27 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @cjd besides, although my views are informed by theory, they're just as informed by what worked in my experiences as an organiser -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:49:51 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @cjd so the solution to the CoC problem is having the state enforce a universal CoC on all gatherings of 3 or more people. No? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:51:15 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @cjd could it be that there's a cultural shift required that can't be magically made to happen by rule change enforced from above? -
Nate Cull (natecull@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:51:27 UTC 
Nate Cull
@pnathan @strypey I also think the architectural ideas of Christopher 'A Pattern Language' Alexander are sensible. And the economic ideas of Michael Albert.
I think the best social organisation - and one we see in biological systems - is not massive hub-and-spokes centralisation, but recursive federations which themselves federate.
Centralise the things which *make sense* to centralise. Which should only be *what smaller units can't handle themselves*.
This seems a universal pattern to me.
Danyl Strype repeated this. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:52:04 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @cjd this says it quite nicely:
http://qttr.at/1ytx -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:54:39 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan my thinking on this is a bit different @natecull. I'm strongly opposed to geo-blocking and other unnecessary geographical barriers -
Nate Cull (natecull@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:54:50 UTC
Nate Cull
Ie, I agree with the critique that the economic Right has long made against the Left (styled as the USSR) - that ground-up democratic decentralisation is generally better than top-down centralisation.
Where I differ with the Right is that I believe the market, left to itself, tends to over-centralise in a few winners. So a democratic state can act as a counterbalance to the otherwise unchecked centralising power of commerce.
Danyl Strype repeated this. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:55:12 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull ...and putting a Google or #FarceBook datacentre in NZ doesn't get to the root of the problem of #TheStacks -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:56:16 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull I'd rather use a community-owned, free code service hosted outside of #NZ than a corporate-owned, proprietary one in NZ -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 06:58:25 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull but I do think public service data should be hosted in the same territory as the service, under the same laws -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:01:23 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull for similar reasons, I think it makes sense for businesses that are not themselves transnational to host data locally -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:04:42 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull FWIW my wife and I are on a benefit and we can afford to eat locally sourced, organic food. Helps that we don't drink or smoke ;) -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:06:23 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @pnathan true, but we have to learn from the successes *and* failures of the 'back to the land' movement. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:07:16 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull they learned that while increasing community self-sufficiency has merit, larger scale (inter-dependence) does too -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:08:15 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull even if we can establish a #P2P app ecosystem running on a #FreeNetwork, we still need PCs manufactured and distributed -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:09:21 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull these things can be done more independently too, but there's a point where atomization becomes more brittle, not less -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:11:52 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @pnathan I'm sure many books have been written on 'back to the land', I'm only going on chats with folks I've met in communities -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:12:34 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull a common theme is that creating independent economies is part of a social change strategy, not a replacement for one -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:16:10 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull but I take your point about the trade-offs of 'ethical consumption'. If I apply all my ethical filters all the time I buy nothing -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:17:44 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @pnathan I've often thought about that generation of "cyberspace" techno-utopians as the indigenous people of the internet -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:19:18 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull they were both displaced by, and found reinforcements in, the 1990s "DotCom" generation of which we were both a part -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 07:20:06 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull I wonder what those of us defending the indigenous culture of the net could learn from other indigenous rights movements? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 10:43:28 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @bob @pnathan @cjd cancer is *very* efficient. That's why it can grow exponentially... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 10:43:39 UTC
Danyl Strype
@bob @pnathan @natecull @cjd and why it has such high productivity ;-P #InvestInCancer -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 12:04:39 UTC
Danyl Strype
@gcupc @pnathan I think @natecull and I have come to the conclusion that what he means by "state" (neutral coordinating entity)... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 12:06:04 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @gcupc ...and what we mean by state (monopoly on the use of force in a given territory) are quite different things. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 12:07:13 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @gcupc I think what @natecull means by "state" could be, in anarchist terms, something like 'federation of public commons bodies' -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2017 12:09:00 UTC
Danyl Strype
@pnathan @natecull @gcupc the work of Elinor Ostrom might be relevant. Commons are not passive resource but stewardships
http://qttr.at/1yub -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 24-Nov-2017 23:51:14 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull @pnathan this piece offers some useful insights into why the Californian revolution seems to have failed
http://qttr.at/20c3 -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2017 00:33:03 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull ... and when the "mainstream" is replaced by a new normal that looks more like a braided river (a network society) ... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2017 00:34:05 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull ... the very concept of an "alternative" made up of "subcultures" becomes inherently obsolete, leaving us all somewhat marooned -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2017 00:35:45 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull in a sense, the "alternative" movement won, but we were dead wrong that a networked society would automatically distribute power -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2017 00:38:40 UTC
Danyl Strype
@natecull ... because it's just as good at distributing orders, advertising, manipulation, disinfo etc
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