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1. Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2017 09:51:28 UTC Danyl Strype

   • silverwizard
   @silverwizard should it not? Putting aside ethics, punching people doesn't change their political beliefs or allegiances...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2017 09:52:17 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard ... it reinforces their beliefs and drives their organisation underground, where critical sunlight can't disinfect it
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Oct-2017 07:41:04 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard rage is an emotion. All emotions are valid, always. But behaviours can not be justified by reference to emotions.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Oct-2017 07:41:52 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard eg "I hit her because she made me angry". The anger is valid, the hitting is not.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Oct-2017 07:43:00 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard for exactly the same reason "I punched him because I'm enraged by his politics". The rage is valid, the punching is not.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2017 00:13:56 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard not for me. I don't believe there's a time when "violence is needed". Violence is the problem.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2017 00:16:42 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard yes, we need to be able to use force to prevent violence (see Scilla Ellworthy's book 'Power & Sex'). Soul force, not punching
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2017 00:27:54 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard here's an example of a tai chi master using force in self defence, without initiating any aggression
     http://qttr.at/1z2n
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2017 05:39:31 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard did I miss a memo giving the situations where its ok to punch a feminist for divergent doctrine?!? This is a thing?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2017 04:08:30 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard I think you misunderstand what "soul force" means.
     http://qttr.at/1z40
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2017 04:09:56 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard so if I want to attack or kill someone, I just have to claim that I'm "marginalized" and they are "oppressors"?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2017 04:10:09 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard can't see any way that could go wrong...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 05:42:25 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard I share your goal here; to empower marginalized groups, or at least avoid being one of those marginalizing them. 
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 05:45:02 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard BUT 1) who gets to decide this hierarchy of marginalization (eg Trans dudes can punch TERFs but cis dudes can't), and why?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 05:47:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard 2) doesn't normalizing inter-personal violence lead to an undeclared state of civil war, narrowing our horizons of trust?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 05:50:36 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard ... when we actually need to broaden everyone's horizon of trust, and thus our ability to have useful dialogue and change?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 05:56:06 UTC Danyl Strype

     • kat
     • silverwizard
     Absolutely agree @kat. See the rest of my discussion with @silverwizard for my attempts to explain why.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 05:59:13 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • kat
     • silverwizard
     @kat @silverwizard that said, perhaps there are local elements that can be missed in delocalized online discussions?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2017 06:01:07 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • kat
     • silverwizard
     @kat @silverwizard what if #TERFs in a particular city/ country are calling for and condoning violence against trans people there?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 06:01:18 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard I disagree with you and feel marginalized by your views. I guess I better get to work finding out where you live... ;-P
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:01:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard rule of law stops fascists from rounding up and killing anarchists and stops us doing the same to fascists for the same reason
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:02:52 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard do you really want to make an argument for suspending rule of law? Because that's exactly what real fascists want ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:04:43 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard ... it frees them to attack and kill political opponents, instead of having to be involved in arguments they can't win.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:06:08 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard rule of law is the only thing stopping the cops from stepping aside and letting fascist death squads run riot.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:07:05 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard I can't understand the strategy of driving soft nationalists into the arms of fascists, and then going to war with them all.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:08:15 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard considering that the security-industrial complex would side with the fascists and we would be ridiculously outgunned.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:09:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard I've beaten up by neo-nazi skinheads, and believe me I understand the visceral desire to hit back. I do.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:10:42 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard but as an organised response, it's the sort of dangerously bad strategy that led to Franco's victory in Spain.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2017 08:38:16 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Bob Mottram
     • silverwizard
     @bob @silverwizard exactly. Anarchists claiming a "right" to beat up nationalists is heading into *dangerous* paramilitary territory #Narcos
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:01:46 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard you seem to be using "rule of law" and "the state" interchangeably. IMHO this is a serious misunderstanding.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:03:19 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard the rule of law is the concept that agents of the state are bound by exactly the same system of law as any other citizen ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:05:13 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard more broadly, rule of law says that all citizens have the same rights and the same access to systems of resolution (eg courts)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:06:00 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard .. even in an anarchist society in which all states had been abolished, the concept of rule of law would still be important.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:07:13 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard rule of law is needed to prevent both "tyranny of structurelessness" and "kangeroo courts" in a post-revolutionary situation
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:08:34 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard the solution to a lack of consistent enforcement of laws is not to abandon the rule of law for escalating vigilante justice
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:09:53 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard also, you haven't engaged with the strategic question about the wisdom of pushing soft nationalists into the arms of fascists
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:10:45 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard here in Aotearoa we've focused on pulling soft nationalists towards more progressive form (eg opposing global corporate rule)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:12:52 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard with the result that our new government is a centre coalition of organised labour, the green-left, and the nationalist-left
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 27-Oct-2017 01:14:03 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard when the left demonize and attack nationalists, the result is a divide-and-rule in which global corporate fascism wins
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2017 04:02:55 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard yes, a state can uphold or undermine the rule of law. But so can the actions of communities. Mob justice harms the rule of law
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2017 04:07:03 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard do I suggest people allow themselves to be beaten or killed to uphold the rule of law? Absolutely not. Self-defence is a right
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2017 04:09:46 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard but self-defence can be nonviolent
     http://qttr.at/1zfc
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2017 04:11:33 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard community self-defence can be creative, even fun , which makes it more inclusive
     http://qttr.at/1zfd
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2017 04:13:10 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard most importantly, it works. Events here in Aotearoa show that mocking fascists demobilizes them ...
     http://qttr.at/1zfa
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2017 04:14:44 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard ... while masking up and attacking them increases both their sense of importance, and fear of the left they use for recruiting
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2017 08:34:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard Hitler claimed that the Germans were a vulnerable population defending themselves against a powerful, global Jewish population
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2017 08:37:08 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard is there an objective measure of "vulnerable" we could use to distinguish "necessary" defensive violence from the ideological?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2017 08:40:14 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard given a specific situation, and a range of realistic tactical options and consequences, no doubt I'd debate very differently
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 02-Nov-2017 07:29:01 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard I'm going to have to wrap this up for now. You've raised too many complex points to respond to properly in 140ch chunks
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:36:22 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard it's horses for courses. I'm using a #birdsite style server that's good for sharing links and shortish comments ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:37:54 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard if we were debating on #Diaspora, #Huzbilla, or even an email list or #UseNet, I could go into more detail more easily
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:39:18 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard ... but I don't think the status messages format really lends itself to complex debates, even with longer char limits
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:50:29 UTC Danyl Strype

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy 1) at the time I was a teenager and a committed pacifist, and would rather have been killed than hurt someone ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:51:20 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy 2) I was drunk and got attacked from behind. My first instinct was to run away and get to somewhere safe.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:52:21 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy 3) some of my scrappier friends wanted to start up a posse and take revenge on the boneheads. I asked them not to ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:52:59 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy ... because even at that stage I'd seen gang wars escalate and I couldn't see how that would benefit anyone
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:54:13 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy ... as a chess player, I know what happens when you attack on impulse without a strategy for ending the resulting war
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:56:44 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     @silverwizard how do I find you on #Friendica?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 01:59:38 UTC Danyl Strype

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy yup. After getting gang bashed by some drunk punks who hung round with the local left ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:01:09 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy ... I decided its ok to use force in direct defence of oneself or vulnerable others (eg children or elders) ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:03:19 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to
     ... but even the use of force in self defence is not something to be valourized or celebrated. It's a sign of an earlier failure of strategy
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:05:19 UTC Danyl Strype

     • silverwizard
     • David Philipe Gil
     @davidpgil @silverwizard I don't think it's an either/ or. For me it's about communication bandwidth. Voice has more bandwidth than text ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:06:28 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     • David Philipe Gil
     @silverwizard @davidpgil ... video chat has more again and face-to-face in real space has the most. But there are variations within text ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:08:25 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     • David Philipe Gil
     @silverwizard @davidpgil debates via blogs or email have more communication bandwidth than social media posts (even with long char limits)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:10:16 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     • David Philipe Gil
     @silverwizard @davidpgil ... but text has advantages over live (voice/ video/ F2F), like the persistence of the comments after the fact ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:11:18 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • silverwizard
     • David Philipe Gil
     @silverwizard @davidpgil ... and despite its limits, social media has its advantages too, such as the ability for others to watch or join in
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:13:09 UTC Danyl Strype

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy 1) underestimating people is a really good way to get beaten. Every identifiable group has at least some strategists
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:14:26 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy 2) have you played chess against people who don't care about strategy? They are still dangerous to your pieces ...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 02:16:09 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy ... in a situation where each piece represents one of your friends, good strategy becomes more important, not less
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2017 04:58:57 UTC Danyl Strype

     • PennyForTheGuy
     @therealpennyfortheguy I'm not sure what is gained by indulging in this kind of hateful rhetoric