Notices by sneak (sneak@s.sneak.berlin)

@lxo a zealot is someone who won't change their mind and won't change the subject

you're forgetting about the freedoms of the most important users

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html

rms himself writes (in (3)) about why the AGPL is nonfree.

@arh number 3 - "when you wish". i may wish to make no copies of my modified server software, and never distribute them. AGPL prevents this.

@arh they redefined "user" to be the person making the http requests and not the person, you know, who actually edited and is running the software on the computers they own, because they're anti-capitalists who don't believe in the concept of private property when it comes to information. they have a stock retort for when they are accused of this which does not actually refute the issue.

@cnx @arh

no, this is the whole motte-and-bailey argument that FSF anticapitalist zealots like to toss out whenever they are called out on their ideology that extends past software.

it's a violation of my privacy to demand that i publish files from my own server simply because i ran "systemctl start httpd". there is no "application service provider loophole", it's a feature not a bug.

the AGPL is nonfree.

@cnx you seem to think that my difference of opinion about the AGPL stems from my misunderstanding it.

nothing you've sent me is something i didn't know.

i'm talking about the so-called "ASP loophole", and the fact that AGPL software is nonfree because you are forced to make public private modifications that are executed only on your *own* hardware if those algorithms are used remotely by customers over the network.

@asterope @cnx nah the user is the person running the software to operate their service business.

software is not a service. software is software and a service is a service. *customers* not having access to the software backing a service is not an abridgment of freedom, any more than customers not being allowed in the kitchen of a restaurant.

@lxo the operator of a business uses software to conduct that business and is the user of the software. when you use SaaS you aren't a software user, you're just handing off your data for someone else to use software to provide you with service. it's the difference between cooking and going to a restaurant.

@lxo no the most important users are the ones who are being economically productive and making the world better and more efficient for others. end users don't matter much in the scheme of things. i'd rather have 5 more steve jobs' than 5x the number of iphone users as an available market.