muesli
Expressive programming languages are fantastic, almost artistic, when you're writing your own code from scratch.
But expressive languages are also a pain when you're working as a team and code has to be readable, understandable and reviewable by a group of people.
The more ways you have to express yourself, the harder it is to come to a consensus as a team.
If in doubt, go with the most boring and obvious way to solve a problem. It will make your project more maintainable in the long run.
muesli
Lisp comes to mind. But the more experience I gain as a programmer and - dare I say it - software engineer, the less tolerant I become with regards to expressiveness.
I once thought overloading C++ operators is the best thing since sliced bread, now I cringe when I think about the sins of my past.
Ronnie Soak
@fribbledom Do you have an example for an "expressive programming language"?
sergio_101
@fribbledom hmmmmm
Whadyamake Jake
@fribbledom I'd take a fun expressive language that requires some discipline when working with others over a less expressive language that forces conformity. We have enough pressure to conform as it stands. It takes a concerted effort to maintain the joy of programming and an expressive language keeps that potential in your hands.
schnittchen 🏳️🌈🐯
@fribbledom I could'nt agree more.
Yet, sometimes you need expressiveness, like @wolf480pl said.
I think the learning curve of a language interacts a lot with this problem. You need power features? Yes have them in your language, but make them so difficult to use (but ideally still easy to understand at the level of "what's effectively happening") so that you refrain from using them when you can...
vydd
@fribbledom If any of the mainstream languages were exactly at the right level of expressiveness, there would be no updates to them except to fix bugs. However, from constant updates to the syntax and capabilities (Java, Go, C++), we know that this is false. So it can't be about expressiveness - everyone actually wants more of it. I believe it's about familiarity and conventions on what "the most obvious solution" is, ecosystem, and marketing.
DeanBandes
@fribbledom I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the ancient (1974) wisdom of Kernighan & Plauger's _The Elements of Programming Style_ on this thread
manuelcaeiro ☕
@fribbledom
You're just discreetly advertising Golang, aren't you? 😆
I'll take the opportunity to say that I love Julialang. 🤣
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