Notices by 🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org), page 124

@sda

Also to be clear, since you seem to wish to misrepresent me when you dont agree with me...

I do **not** lump every study that shows risk as being absurd. Only the ones that are actually absurd (or in this case are a screen shot in a power point presentation with no legible link to a source).

There are a few real risk factors with vaccines, allergic reaction to those with egg allergies are a good one and presents a real risk factor that can even result in death.

Autism however has been shown with far more studies than were ever needed, to be unrelated to vaccines.

@xyfdi

@sda

1) I specifically asked you for links to the study, dont assume what I did, I was unable to find them nor did i read or see any links, which is why i **asked** you for them

2) I said nothing of the sort. What I did say was that every study I did read was flat earth quality, though very few even exist. Since you did not provide any studies that I could read that might have been quality I presumed that is likely the case here as well, since I was not given the means to determine otherwise.

Please stop with the hyperbole and misrepresentation of what I said or did.

@xyfdi

@sda

No, you didnt provide "real studies" you provided a power point presentation with pictures from what they claimed to be real studies with no links to any actual studies with which me, or anyone else could use to evaluate the facts.

Since you presented no "real studies" or anything of substance I relied on the thousands of studies i already read on the topic which came to a solid conclusion already.

Keep in mind this is no different than how I wouild treat a flat earther. If they had a real experiment or study to back up their claim I'd happily read it and almost certainly inevitably debunk it, or atleast learn something new and strange about physics. But should a flat earther fail to provide any such information I would otherwise result to my default, and well established, determination that the earth is round.

@xyfdi

@sda

The world is filled with many colors, black, white, and every shade inbetween.

I prefer to not see the world in black and white, or grey, i prefer to see each color for what it is, and when the color is not known, to admit that as well.

@xyfdi

@pschwede

Except the interaction in the first example is only useful if 001 and 100 contain valid represention int he first place, in truth they rarely do.

Your last phrase proves my point perfectly

"Bible and quran would be all you have, you would be trapped in religious blindness."

One bias source is the quran, the other bias source is the bible, the third unbias source is the physics book (c-span). You are right you DONT just have the metaphorical bible & quran, if you did then you'd be lost and unable to derive useful conclusions. Luckily we have some rare unbias sources you can call on. But only if you use it are you likely to understand physics.

@design_RG

@pschwede

No that goes back to what I said earlier.

Adding up two sources of disinformation doesnt give you information. Its similar to the idea of "two wrongs dont make a right"

Instead of taking two sources of propaganda and hoping they add up to truth it makes more sense to just stick with sources of truth and leave it at that.

I cant read the quran and the bible and somehow learn how physics works. Two opposite and incorrect views of the universe will not result in an accurate view of the universe. For that I need a different source that is devoted to unbias truth from the get go, for that I need a physics text book.

@design_RG

@pschwede

No that goes back to what I said earlier.

Adding up two sources of disinformation doesnt give you information. Its similar to the idea of "two wrongs dont make a right"

Instead of taking two sources of propaganda and hoping they add up to truth it makes more sense to just stick with sources of truth and leave it at that.

@design_RG

@design_RG Accurate :) There is a lot to love here. While the system isnt perfect I am here for the people, not the system.

The cultures themselves are a nice bonus too.

@pschwede If a person is striving to find neutral sources, rather than sources with a racial lean, then they are already commited to challenging their racist lean and thus are likely to consider the counter points.

I think your reasoning about it int he wrong direction.

@design_RG no where is great and no where by itself gives me what i need.

In my view the USA is the best place to work and do anyhthing with money, europe is the best place to live, particularly without money :)

@pschwede

I'm not sure i agree. Msot of our lean comes from the fact that the media repeats it every day over and over until it is hammered in. Since we tend to pick our media based on our lean we submit to this sort of brain washing of our own accord.

Being aware of the lean as you are exposed to it isnt enough, our own tendency for confirmation bias is far too strong for that to be sufficient.

@design_RG

@design_RG

Its not always about simply if the information is cited or accurate in isolation. incorrect information isnt the only way bias and lean can be harmful or lead to wrong conclusions.

Consider for example the fact that blacks in the USA are, statistically, more likely to commit violent crimes than america. If i have a racist lean I can present that fact, and it would be totally factual, but the conclusions you draw would be incorrect.

Take that same example and consider how it would be present from a neutral standpoint. In that case the counter-data would also be presented, in this case, for example, the fact that they have been a marginalized group, and suffer from oppression and poverty (Which one would use to conclude ultimately causes the violence and not their race).

Thats why lean from news sources are so insidious, cherry picking and confirmation bias are crippling characteristics of most people and by having lean, even with well sources and factual information, can lead to very dangerous and harmful conclusions all the same.

@pschwede

@design_RG

What troubles me in this response is that you admit you have a lean (in and of itself not a bad thing) and therefore seek out news sources that support your lean.

I have plenty of leans on various issues. But I tend to prefer neutral sources that challenge my tendency to have a lean with actual facts without propaganda.

If my lean is "just" and proper then it would be strengthened by the truth and not need to seek out propaganda in the first place.

@pschwede

@pschwede

1) You can tell people about some subversion that is contextual without breaking neutrality.. for example

bias: "Bob has stolen from the people again in 5 million missing dollars from the fund"

no-bias: "William, bobs secretary, made a public statement today claiming bob stole 5 million dollars from the charity, the court has yet to confirm the accusation"

2) not sure it is a good thing that you "wont read bad things about lefitsts" particularly if that translates to "you will read bad things about rightists and good things about leftists"

3) if a source isnt bias then you wont read things against whistleblowing anyway, not things with a bias lean towrds whistleblowing (which often will lead to falshoods).. you would just read the truth about a matter, nothing more nothing less.

4) same as #3, i dont want things to be pro-capitalist, nor do i want them to be pro-grass roots. I want truth, not propaganda.

@design_RG

@design_RG I think europe is a fine example. PRior to the EU they still managed to have a developed rail system and road system that surpassed even the USA which had a federal govt.

@design_RG

Not sure i agree, I've seen plenty of bias out of the guardian. Yes they are better than say MSNBC or fox, but they still lack journalistic integrity in my view and let their opinion seep into their reporting.

@pschwede

@design_RG Corruption like you speak of is a very real concern, and completely valid at a local level.. thing is, it is just as valid at a federal level. We all know the tendency of politicians and president to hire people they know rather than qualified people, its been a big focus in the Trump administration for example.

The real question is, is there any reason to think this issue would be any worse at a local level rather than a federal one. It would appear to be ubiquous.

I'd argue this sort of corruption happens just as often at a local level than at a federal one. But at least when it occurs at a local level it would be easier to identify and fix and would cause less harm since the scope of their power is smaller. When it happens at a federal level, as it does, then everyone is harmed by it and the only way to change it is to convince a whole nation its an issue, rather than just your neighborhood.

@_lunawinters You're welcome

@design_RG hyperlodcal doesnt suggest there would be no federal government of any kind. Only that the local governments would choose, and ultimately have the power, in doing that.

Most states would want road systems, so most states would choose to be part of a coalition to do that at a country level.

If everyone in a particular county wants to be amish and doesnt want a road running through their town, that is their choice, but it also means they wont get access to roads by extension.

To me the best analogy we are familiar with in our own lives are home owners associations, which is like a federal government as a metaphore. No one wants to be told what they can put in their own lawn or how to pain their house, and personally if ind 1000 homes all looking the same to be quite unpleasant.

@pschwede I'd rather save the effort and just use reliable sources